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CX2SA  > SATDIG   13.06.19 21:30l 1082 Lines 40494 Bytes #6 (0) @ WW
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Sent: 190613/1920Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:7891 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB14229
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To  : SATDIG@WW

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio tuning (Jari A)
   2. Re: DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio tuning (Joe)
   3. Re: DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio tuning
      (Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL))
   4. Re: DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio tuning (Jari A)
   5. Re: DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio tuning (Greg D)
   6. Re: DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio tuning
      (Robert Bruninga)
   7. BIRDS-3 deploy from ISS at 17th June (Masahiro Arai)
   8. Antenna SWR question (skristof@???????.????
   9. Re: Antenna SWR question (Mark D. Johns)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:50:53 +0300
From: Jari A <oh2fqv@?????.???>
To: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio
tuning
Message-ID:
<CAEVbYfm4cb167-_jPudmF_mTkJucWhC1drKYi7L-5SwX7ECwTw@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi, I use Kenwood TS-711 for sat qsos, its a 2m multimode rig, it has
sister rig, TS-811 for 70cm band, both has 10Hz steps on all modes.

Regards,

:Jari / oh2fqv

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 3:37 PM Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:

> Question.  All FM-only rigs of course only do 5 KHz steps anyway.  Are we
> finding that multi-mode rigs when placed in FM mode can actually step
> smaller under CAT control?
>
> If so, then we must point that out to users, since it will not work for
> PSK31 even in FM.
>
> Thanks for the reminder.  If rigs do that, then I will add this to the PSAT
> web page.  The advice to not use auto-radio tuning except for 5 KHz steps
> on
> the downlink.  IE, not smaller steps.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of aflowers--- via
> AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 10:58 PM
> To: amsat-bb@?????.???? Scott <scott23192@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK
>
>  Scott, Roy, Umesh, et al;
> Part of the problem with PSK31 is that it required the adjustment for
> changes in Doppler shift to be to be phase-continuous.  I think the Doppler
> rate (delta-Doppler shift) at even 10m is too fast for most radios--what
> you
> often get with CAT control, even if you can update while transmitting, is
> PSK31 that jumps more than 31Hz per update, and that totally destroys the
> phase continuity required to tell a '1' from '0'.  This was the "fun"
> problem that spurred me to take a swing at it over a summer vacation.
> When DopplerPSK applies "anti-doppler" on the transmitted signal, it does
> so
> at the baseband audio level.  This works fine for 3Khz passbands on a 10m
> uplink, but if you want to do it with SSB transponders and VHF and UHF
> you'll need an SDR where you aren't limited by an IF filter.   The same
> algorithm in DopplerPSK could be used on a complex signal in the SDR
> architecture, and it could work equally on TX and RX in the processing
> chain.   To the accuracy of the orbital elements everyone uses, if everyone
> corrects their uplink and downlink properly there is no perceived frequency
> drift by anyone using the satellite.  Just what you need for a GHz-range
> LEO
> with a narrow-band transponder, eh? Since the downlink of NO-84 is FM there
> is no Doppler shift in the baseband audio of the downlink--you hear what
> the
> satellite hears.  If we get a mode-K satellite it might be worthwhile to do
> a baseband demodulator in a soundcard since the total change in Doppler
> shift will be small enough to fit in a conventional HF radio's IF passband
> in both directions.
> If the antiquated hosting site doesn't come back I'll get off my duff and
> find a "proper" place for it.  It's nice to see people playing around with
> it. (Thanks for bridging the gap in the meantime, Peter.) Andy K0SM/2
>
>
>
>     On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 9:24:12 PM EDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
>  While it might certainly be possible to put together a solution that would
> compensate your uplink so that its corresponding downlink through the
> transponder holds stationary on a single spot on the downlink audio
> spectrum, there are two reasons (at least) that I can think of to not go to
> that trouble:
>
> #1, the DopplerPSK app takes care of it perfectly already.  The work has
> been done.
>
> #2, if memory serves, some radios do not respond to CAT frequency
> adjustments when transmitting.  In this mode, your uplink radio is
> transmitting non-stop for the entire ~10 minute pass.  If you have a
> hardware/software setup that can only change RF frequency when in receive
> mode, that will never happen during an NO-84 pass.
>
> Lastly, like much satellite work, the uplink and downlink are two
> completely separate discussions in this mode.  While the 10m uplink works
> extremely well with the DopplerPSK software and the HF radio of your
> choice, receiving & demodulating the PSK31 downlink can be done by any
> antenna/FM radio(or SDR), and computer combination of your liking.  Just as
> one example, my setup is:
>
> TX:  Windows PC > DopplerPSK > Signalink > FT-857d > MyAntennas EFHW-8010
>
> RX:  70cm X-Quad > SDRPlay RSP1 > HDSDR on Windows PC (doppler track w/
> Orbitron) > FLDigi
>
>
> -Scott,  K4KDR
>
> ==============================
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 8:20 PM k6vug@?????????.??? <k6vug@?????????.???>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm very curious about this, thanks for sharing the links.
> >
> > Looks like the program adjusts the PSK modulation within the pass band of
> > the uplink, and at 10 meters, that would be relatively small.  It makes
> > sense, however would this work if SatPC32 manages the uplink ?
> >
> > Secondly, I came across this on the website:
> >
> > "DopplerPSK does not provide any PSK31 demodulation; you should use a
> > separate program for that purpose. DopplerPSK does not provide any
> > compensation for downlink Doppler (which you would need for fully linear
> > transponders)."
> >
> > Question 2 - why not use something like HRD for everything (doppler, psk,
> > rotator, logging, etc) ?
> > (I believe I tried it sometime back by routing of the downlink audio back
> > into HRD)
> >
> > 73!
> > Umesh
> > k6vug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 8:10:11 AM PDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I originally used the link on 2M0SQL's excellent how-to page:
> >
> > https://www.2m0sql.com/2018/10/29/using-the-no-84-psat-psk-transponder/
> >
> > ... which is:
> >
> > http://www.frontiernet.net/~aflowers/dopplerpsk/dopplerpsk.html
> >
> > If that link isn't available, you're welcome to the copy I downloaded
> > which
> > has just been put at:
> >
> > https://www.qsl.net/k/k4kdr//downloads/DopplerPSK_0.2.zip
> >
> > -Scott,  K4KDR
> >
> > ==========================
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 10:53 AM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > With all this talk of NO-84, and me finally having a semi-operational
> > > ground station - I went looking for DopplerPSK, but every link I found
> > was
> > > broken.  Where can I get this software?
> > >
> > > --Roy
> > > K3RLD
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:29:19 -0500
From: Joe <nss@???.???>
To: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>, AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio
tuning
Message-ID: <87ebdb9c-d74b-ce49-19f1-51bf69c8a5e8@???.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed


On 6/13/2019 8:03 AM, Joe wrote:
> Hopefully if the bird is functional on Field Day we will be putting a
> rig to test.
>
> Transmit will be an IC-7300 with dopplerpsk and a 43 foot vertical,
> should have a lot of high lobes
>
> Recv a yagi of some sort and an IC-9100.
>
> Remember the old VHF multi mode rigs with VFO's that had the
> discriminator centering meter display?
> For when you are using FM you centered the meter to be spot on in
> frequency.
>
> The 9100 has a similar thing, BUT? also it has a mode where it
> automatically follows the signal keeping it centered if it drifts. So
> might be awesome!
>
> Joe WB9SBD



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:22:09 +0100
From: "Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL)" <peter@????????.??.??>
To: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio
tuning
Message-ID:
<CAFvUaipbjJJoPBqM1Jz-5MNC4kuy+jH=tdajHHqkZKP7hehyCA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Bob,

Yes they can correct too much smaller with CAT control, for NO-84 PSK
I have SatPC32 correct my IC-910 every 600Hz this doesn't appear to
present any problems and I've had many contacts.

Is there a reason why you're suggesting this isn't OK?

73,

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 13:35, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Question.  All FM-only rigs of course only do 5 KHz steps anyway.  Are we
> finding that multi-mode rigs when placed in FM mode can actually step
> smaller under CAT control?
>
> If so, then we must point that out to users, since it will not work for
> PSK31 even in FM.
>
> Thanks for the reminder.  If rigs do that, then I will add this to the PSAT
> web page.  The advice to not use auto-radio tuning except for 5 KHz steps on
> the downlink.  IE, not smaller steps.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of aflowers--- via
> AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 10:58 PM
> To: amsat-bb@?????.???? Scott <scott23192@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK
>
>  Scott, Roy, Umesh, et al;
> Part of the problem with PSK31 is that it required the adjustment for
> changes in Doppler shift to be to be phase-continuous.  I think the Doppler
> rate (delta-Doppler shift) at even 10m is too fast for most radios--what you
> often get with CAT control, even if you can update while transmitting, is
> PSK31 that jumps more than 31Hz per update, and that totally destroys the
> phase continuity required to tell a '1' from '0'.  This was the "fun"
> problem that spurred me to take a swing at it over a summer vacation.
> When DopplerPSK applies "anti-doppler" on the transmitted signal, it does so
> at the baseband audio level.  This works fine for 3Khz passbands on a 10m
> uplink, but if you want to do it with SSB transponders and VHF and UHF
> you'll need an SDR where you aren't limited by an IF filter.   The same
> algorithm in DopplerPSK could be used on a complex signal in the SDR
> architecture, and it could work equally on TX and RX in the processing
> chain.   To the accuracy of the orbital elements everyone uses, if everyone
> corrects their uplink and downlink properly there is no perceived frequency
> drift by anyone using the satellite.  Just what you need for a GHz-range LEO
> with a narrow-band transponder, eh? Since the downlink of NO-84 is FM there
> is no Doppler shift in the baseband audio of the downlink--you hear what the
> satellite hears.  If we get a mode-K satellite it might be worthwhile to do
> a baseband demodulator in a soundcard since the total change in Doppler
> shift will be small enough to fit in a conventional HF radio's IF passband
> in both directions.
> If the antiquated hosting site doesn't come back I'll get off my duff and
> find a "proper" place for it.  It's nice to see people playing around with
> it. (Thanks for bridging the gap in the meantime, Peter.) Andy K0SM/2
>
>
>
>     On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 9:24:12 PM EDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
>  While it might certainly be possible to put together a solution that would
> compensate your uplink so that its corresponding downlink through the
> transponder holds stationary on a single spot on the downlink audio
> spectrum, there are two reasons (at least) that I can think of to not go to
> that trouble:
>
> #1, the DopplerPSK app takes care of it perfectly already.  The work has
> been done.
>
> #2, if memory serves, some radios do not respond to CAT frequency
> adjustments when transmitting.  In this mode, your uplink radio is
> transmitting non-stop for the entire ~10 minute pass.  If you have a
> hardware/software setup that can only change RF frequency when in receive
> mode, that will never happen during an NO-84 pass.
>
> Lastly, like much satellite work, the uplink and downlink are two
> completely separate discussions in this mode.  While the 10m uplink works
> extremely well with the DopplerPSK software and the HF radio of your
> choice, receiving & demodulating the PSK31 downlink can be done by any
> antenna/FM radio(or SDR), and computer combination of your liking.  Just as
> one example, my setup is:
>
> TX:  Windows PC > DopplerPSK > Signalink > FT-857d > MyAntennas EFHW-8010
>
> RX:  70cm X-Quad > SDRPlay RSP1 > HDSDR on Windows PC (doppler track w/
> Orbitron) > FLDigi
>
>
> -Scott,  K4KDR
>
> ==============================
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 8:20 PM k6vug@?????????.??? <k6vug@?????????.???>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm very curious about this, thanks for sharing the links.
> >
> > Looks like the program adjusts the PSK modulation within the pass band of
> > the uplink, and at 10 meters, that would be relatively small.  It makes
> > sense, however would this work if SatPC32 manages the uplink ?
> >
> > Secondly, I came across this on the website:
> >
> > "DopplerPSK does not provide any PSK31 demodulation; you should use a
> > separate program for that purpose. DopplerPSK does not provide any
> > compensation for downlink Doppler (which you would need for fully linear
> > transponders)."
> >
> > Question 2 - why not use something like HRD for everything (doppler, psk,
> > rotator, logging, etc) ?
> > (I believe I tried it sometime back by routing of the downlink audio back
> > into HRD)
> >
> > 73!
> > Umesh
> > k6vug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 8:10:11 AM PDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I originally used the link on 2M0SQL's excellent how-to page:
> >
> > https://www.2m0sql.com/2018/10/29/using-the-no-84-psat-psk-transponder/
> >
> > ... which is:
> >
> > http://www.frontiernet.net/~aflowers/dopplerpsk/dopplerpsk.html
> >
> > If that link isn't available, you're welcome to the copy I downloaded
> > which
> > has just been put at:
> >
> > https://www.qsl.net/k/k4kdr//downloads/DopplerPSK_0.2.zip
> >
> > -Scott,  K4KDR
> >
> > ==========================
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 10:53 AM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > With all this talk of NO-84, and me finally having a semi-operational
> > > ground station - I went looking for DopplerPSK, but every link I found
> > was
> > > broken.  Where can I get this software?
> > >
> > > --Roy
> > > K3RLD
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:30:22 +0300
From: Jari A <oh2fqv@?????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio
tuning
Message-ID:
<CAEVbYfnwCKzG2yjG_iTRVFHWU93d9PmA7cMS8g0_FRToTiYStA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

 Hi Armand, others

I have had the rig for 10 years and yes, it does have 10Hz step also in FM
mode. I actually check that with my rig, before I post my message.
Normal step for FM is 5KHz, 12,5KHz and 25KHz, but with continuous tune
mode, it goes to 10Hz with FM

Regards,

:Jari  / oh2fqv

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:25 PM Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:

> Bob,
>
> Yes they can correct too much smaller with CAT control, for NO-84 PSK
> I have SatPC32 correct my IC-910 every 600Hz this doesn't appear to
> present any problems and I've had many contacts.
>
> Is there a reason why you're suggesting this isn't OK?
>
> 73,
>
> Peter, 2M0SQL
>
> On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 13:35, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> > Question.  All FM-only rigs of course only do 5 KHz steps anyway.  Are we
> > finding that multi-mode rigs when placed in FM mode can actually step
> > smaller under CAT control?
> >
> > If so, then we must point that out to users, since it will not work for
> > PSK31 even in FM.
> >
> > Thanks for the reminder.  If rigs do that, then I will add this to the
> PSAT
> > web page.  The advice to not use auto-radio tuning except for 5 KHz
> steps on
> > the downlink.  IE, not smaller steps.
> >
> > Bob, WB4APR
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of aflowers--- via
> > AMSAT-BB
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 10:58 PM
> > To: amsat-bb@?????.???? Scott <scott23192@?????.???>
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK
> >
> >  Scott, Roy, Umesh, et al;
> > Part of the problem with PSK31 is that it required the adjustment for
> > changes in Doppler shift to be to be phase-continuous.  I think the
> Doppler
> > rate (delta-Doppler shift) at even 10m is too fast for most radios--what
> you
> > often get with CAT control, even if you can update while transmitting, is
> > PSK31 that jumps more than 31Hz per update, and that totally destroys the
> > phase continuity required to tell a '1' from '0'.  This was the "fun"
> > problem that spurred me to take a swing at it over a summer vacation.
> > When DopplerPSK applies "anti-doppler" on the transmitted signal, it
> does so
> > at the baseband audio level.  This works fine for 3Khz passbands on a 10m
> > uplink, but if you want to do it with SSB transponders and VHF and UHF
> > you'll need an SDR where you aren't limited by an IF filter.   The same
> > algorithm in DopplerPSK could be used on a complex signal in the SDR
> > architecture, and it could work equally on TX and RX in the processing
> > chain.   To the accuracy of the orbital elements everyone uses, if
> everyone
> > corrects their uplink and downlink properly there is no perceived
> frequency
> > drift by anyone using the satellite.  Just what you need for a GHz-range
> LEO
> > with a narrow-band transponder, eh? Since the downlink of NO-84 is FM
> there
> > is no Doppler shift in the baseband audio of the downlink--you hear what
> the
> > satellite hears.  If we get a mode-K satellite it might be worthwhile to
> do
> > a baseband demodulator in a soundcard since the total change in Doppler
> > shift will be small enough to fit in a conventional HF radio's IF
> passband
> > in both directions.
> > If the antiquated hosting site doesn't come back I'll get off my duff and
> > find a "proper" place for it.  It's nice to see people playing around
> with
> > it. (Thanks for bridging the gap in the meantime, Peter.) Andy K0SM/2
> >
> >
> >
> >     On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 9:24:12 PM EDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB
> > <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> >  While it might certainly be possible to put together a solution that
> would
> > compensate your uplink so that its corresponding downlink through the
> > transponder holds stationary on a single spot on the downlink audio
> > spectrum, there are two reasons (at least) that I can think of to not go
> to
> > that trouble:
> >
> > #1, the DopplerPSK app takes care of it perfectly already.  The work has
> > been done.
> >
> > #2, if memory serves, some radios do not respond to CAT frequency
> > adjustments when transmitting.  In this mode, your uplink radio is
> > transmitting non-stop for the entire ~10 minute pass.  If you have a
> > hardware/software setup that can only change RF frequency when in receive
> > mode, that will never happen during an NO-84 pass.
> >
> > Lastly, like much satellite work, the uplink and downlink are two
> > completely separate discussions in this mode.  While the 10m uplink works
> > extremely well with the DopplerPSK software and the HF radio of your
> > choice, receiving & demodulating the PSK31 downlink can be done by any
> > antenna/FM radio(or SDR), and computer combination of your liking.  Just
> as
> > one example, my setup is:
> >
> > TX:  Windows PC > DopplerPSK > Signalink > FT-857d > MyAntennas EFHW-8010
> >
> > RX:  70cm X-Quad > SDRPlay RSP1 > HDSDR on Windows PC (doppler track w/
> > Orbitron) > FLDigi
> >
> >
> > -Scott,  K4KDR
> >
> > ==============================
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 8:20 PM k6vug@?????????.??? <k6vug@?????????.???
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm very curious about this, thanks for sharing the links.
> > >
> > > Looks like the program adjusts the PSK modulation within the pass band
> of
> > > the uplink, and at 10 meters, that would be relatively small.  It makes
> > > sense, however would this work if SatPC32 manages the uplink ?
> > >
> > > Secondly, I came across this on the website:
> > >
> > > "DopplerPSK does not provide any PSK31 demodulation; you should use a
> > > separate program for that purpose. DopplerPSK does not provide any
> > > compensation for downlink Doppler (which you would need for fully
> linear
> > > transponders)."
> > >
> > > Question 2 - why not use something like HRD for everything (doppler,
> psk,
> > > rotator, logging, etc) ?
> > > (I believe I tried it sometime back by routing of the downlink audio
> back
> > > into HRD)
> > >
> > > 73!
> > > Umesh
> > > k6vug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 8:10:11 AM PDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB <
> > > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I originally used the link on 2M0SQL's excellent how-to page:
> > >
> > >
> https://www.2m0sql.com/2018/10/29/using-the-no-84-psat-psk-transponder/
> > >
> > > ... which is:
> > >
> > > http://www.frontiernet.net/~aflowers/dopplerpsk/dopplerpsk.html
> > >
> > > If that link isn't available, you're welcome to the copy I downloaded
> > > which
> > > has just been put at:
> > >
> > > https://www.qsl.net/k/k4kdr//downloads/DopplerPSK_0.2.zip
> > >
> > > -Scott,  K4KDR
> > >
> > > ==========================
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 10:53 AM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB <
> amsat-bb@?????.???
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > With all this talk of NO-84, and me finally having a semi-operational
> > > > ground station - I went looking for DopplerPSK, but every link I
> found
> > > was
> > > > broken.  Where can I get this software?
> > > >
> > > > --Roy
> > > > K3RLD
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions
> > expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed
> > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 09:19:09 -0700
From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@?????.???>
To: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>
Cc: "Peter Goodhall \(2M0SQL\)" <peter@????????.??.??>,	AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio
tuning
Message-ID: <2cc92c07-09b5-2857-822a-b38e94aded8e@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

My puzzlement, as well.  The audio in an FM signal shouldn't change with
small changes in the receiver frequency, due to the FM capture effect.
That's assuming that the act of changing the frequency, even by such a
small amount, doesn't "jiggle" the phase of the decoded audio in the
process.

Is that the concern?

Greg  KO6TH


Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) via AMSAT-BB wrote:
> Is there a reason why you're suggesting this isn't OK?



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:54:26 -0400
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>
To: peter@??????.???
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio
tuning
Message-ID: <17305c5fb0b099403586015841a50a56@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Everytime you step the radio frequency will cause a Phase shift and any
PSK31 decoding will loose sync until it can rephrase.  PSK31 needs phase
coherence well under 31 Hz to properly decode.

Better to tell your software to only step the radio once every 2.5 KHz maybe
to minimize these glitches and loss of characters while still keeping the FM
signal in the passband.

Bob, WB4APR

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) <peter@????????.??.??>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 10:22 AM
To: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>
Cc: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK - No 1 kHz-autotracking radio tuning

Bob,

Yes they can correct too much smaller with CAT control, for NO-84 PSK I have
SatPC32 correct my IC-910 every 600Hz this doesn't appear to present any
problems and I've had many contacts.

Is there a reason why you're suggesting this isn't OK?

73,

Peter, 2M0SQL

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 13:35, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB
<amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
> Question.  All FM-only rigs of course only do 5 KHz steps anyway.  Are
> we finding that multi-mode rigs when placed in FM mode can actually
> step smaller under CAT control?
>
> If so, then we must point that out to users, since it will not work
> for
> PSK31 even in FM.
>
> Thanks for the reminder.  If rigs do that, then I will add this to the
> PSAT web page.  The advice to not use auto-radio tuning except for 5
> KHz steps on the downlink.  IE, not smaller steps.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of aflowers---
> via AMSAT-BB
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 10:58 PM
> To: amsat-bb@?????.???? Scott <scott23192@?????.???>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] DopplerPSK
>
>  Scott, Roy, Umesh, et al;
> Part of the problem with PSK31 is that it required the adjustment for
> changes in Doppler shift to be to be phase-continuous.  I think the
> Doppler rate (delta-Doppler shift) at even 10m is too fast for most
> radios--what you often get with CAT control, even if you can update
> while transmitting, is
> PSK31 that jumps more than 31Hz per update, and that totally destroys
> the phase continuity required to tell a '1' from '0'.  This was the "fun"
> problem that spurred me to take a swing at it over a summer vacation.
> When DopplerPSK applies "anti-doppler" on the transmitted signal, it
> does so at the baseband audio level.  This works fine for 3Khz
> passbands on a 10m uplink, but if you want to do it with SSB transponders
> and VHF and UHF
> you'll need an SDR where you aren't limited by an IF filter.   The same
> algorithm in DopplerPSK could be used on a complex signal in the SDR
> architecture, and it could work equally on TX and RX in the processing
> chain.   To the accuracy of the orbital elements everyone uses, if
> everyone
> corrects their uplink and downlink properly there is no perceived
> frequency drift by anyone using the satellite.  Just what you need for
> a GHz-range LEO with a narrow-band transponder, eh? Since the downlink
> of NO-84 is FM there is no Doppler shift in the baseband audio of the
> downlink--you hear what the satellite hears.  If we get a mode-K
> satellite it might be worthwhile to do a baseband demodulator in a
> soundcard since the total change in Doppler shift will be small enough
> to fit in a conventional HF radio's IF passband in both directions.
> If the antiquated hosting site doesn't come back I'll get off my duff
> and find a "proper" place for it.  It's nice to see people playing
> around with it. (Thanks for bridging the gap in the meantime, Peter.)
> Andy K0SM/2
>
>
>
>     On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 9:24:12 PM EDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB
> <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
>
>  While it might certainly be possible to put together a solution that
> would compensate your uplink so that its corresponding downlink
> through the transponder holds stationary on a single spot on the
> downlink audio spectrum, there are two reasons (at least) that I can
> think of to not go to that trouble:
>
> #1, the DopplerPSK app takes care of it perfectly already.  The work
> has been done.
>
> #2, if memory serves, some radios do not respond to CAT frequency
> adjustments when transmitting.  In this mode, your uplink radio is
> transmitting non-stop for the entire ~10 minute pass.  If you have a
> hardware/software setup that can only change RF frequency when in
> receive mode, that will never happen during an NO-84 pass.
>
> Lastly, like much satellite work, the uplink and downlink are two
> completely separate discussions in this mode.  While the 10m uplink
> works extremely well with the DopplerPSK software and the HF radio of
> your choice, receiving & demodulating the PSK31 downlink can be done
> by any antenna/FM radio(or SDR), and computer combination of your
> liking.  Just as one example, my setup is:
>
> TX:  Windows PC > DopplerPSK > Signalink > FT-857d > MyAntennas
> EFHW-8010
>
> RX:  70cm X-Quad > SDRPlay RSP1 > HDSDR on Windows PC (doppler track
> w/
> Orbitron) > FLDigi
>
>
> -Scott,  K4KDR
>
> ==============================
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 8:20 PM k6vug@?????????.???
> <k6vug@?????????.???>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm very curious about this, thanks for sharing the links.
> >
> > Looks like the program adjusts the PSK modulation within the pass
> > band of the uplink, and at 10 meters, that would be relatively
> > small.  It makes sense, however would this work if SatPC32 manages the
> > uplink ?
> >
> > Secondly, I came across this on the website:
> >
> > "DopplerPSK does not provide any PSK31 demodulation; you should use
> > a separate program for that purpose. DopplerPSK does not provide any
> > compensation for downlink Doppler (which you would need for fully
> > linear transponders)."
> >
> > Question 2 - why not use something like HRD for everything (doppler,
> > psk, rotator, logging, etc) ?
> > (I believe I tried it sometime back by routing of the downlink audio
> > back into HRD)
> >
> > 73!
> > Umesh
> > k6vug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, June 12, 2019, 8:10:11 AM PDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB <
> > amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I originally used the link on 2M0SQL's excellent how-to page:
> >
> > https://www.2m0sql.com/2018/10/29/using-the-no-84-psat-psk-transpond
> > er/
> >
> > ... which is:
> >
> > http://www.frontiernet.net/~aflowers/dopplerpsk/dopplerpsk.html
> >
> > If that link isn't available, you're welcome to the copy I
> > downloaded which has just been put at:
> >
> > https://www.qsl.net/k/k4kdr//downloads/DopplerPSK_0.2.zip
> >
> > -Scott,  K4KDR
> >
> > ==========================
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 10:53 AM Roy Dean via AMSAT-BB
> > <amsat-bb@?????.???
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > With all this talk of NO-84, and me finally having a
> > > semi-operational ground station - I went looking for DopplerPSK,
> > > but every link I found
> > was
> > > broken.  Where can I get this software?
> > >
> > > --Roy
> > > K3RLD
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
> official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 02:47:04 +0900
From: Masahiro Arai <m-arai@?.?????.??.??>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] BIRDS-3 deploy from ISS at 17th June
Message-ID: <0cf46bb7-0705-8330-deb8-69708f6f2abe@?.?????.??.??>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

JAXA announced BIRDS-3 satellites, NepaliSat-1 (Nepal), Raavana-1
(Sri Lanka) and Uguisu (Japan), deploy from ISS at 17th June.

The live will be start at 0835z on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrw3cMw10nQ&feature=youtu.be

The three satellites operate on same frequency.
437.375MHz CW beacon, GMSK 4800bps

More info is on  BIRDS-3 Project web site.
https://birds3.birds-project.com


Happy chasing!

Masa  JN1GKZ    Tokyo Japan



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:47:17 -0400
From: skristof@???????.???
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: [amsat-bb] Antenna SWR question
Message-ID: <32dec07dddcdfa29ae96155913f25ae8@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I've been having trouble getting into the FM satellites lately. It's the
same rig I've been using for a couple of years and I have not had
problems before. I bought a digital meter to measure power out from the
handhelds and to measure SWR on the antennas. According to the meter I'm
getting 4.9 W out of the handhelds, which is expected. For SWR I've got
values of 1.7 at 70 cm and 2.0 at 2 m. The antenna is an Arrow.

Are those acceptable SWR values? Should I try to get them lower? Can you
even adjust the tuning on an Arrow antenna?

Steve AI9IN

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:14:31 -0500
From: "Mark D. Johns" <mjohns+K0JM@??????.???>
To: skristof@???????.???
Cc: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Antenna SWR question
Message-ID:
<CAHKCqnCXqUYVGhsD067c2mNcti=errnxC9Z1VHve0ezRXeGD5w@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Very acceptable readings when feedlines are so short.

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 13:47 AI9IN via AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb@?????.???> wrote:

> I've been having trouble getting into the FM satellites lately. It's the
> same rig I've been using for a couple of years and I have not had
> problems before. I bought a digital meter to measure power out from the
> handhelds and to measure SWR on the antennas. According to the meter I'm
> getting 4.9 W out of the handhelds, which is expected. For SWR I've got
> values of 1.7 at 70 cm and 2.0 at 2 m. The antenna is an Arrow.
>
> Are those acceptable SWR values? Should I try to get them lower? Can you
> even adjust the tuning on an Arrow antenna?
>
> Steve AI9IN
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
> expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
> AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
--
***Sent from Gmail on iPhone***
Mark D. Johns, Ph.D. K0JM
Professor Emeritus of Communication Studies at
Luther College, Decorah, Iowa USA
Now residing in Minneapolis, Minn.
------------------------------------------------
"Get the facts first. You can distort them later."
---Mark Twain


------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership.  Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

------------------------------

End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 14, Issue 229
*****************************************


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