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CX2SA  > SATDIG   17.06.18 02:30l 880 Lines 33793 Bytes #7 (0) @ WW
BID : AMSATBB13209
Read: GUEST
Subj: AMSAT-BB-digest V13 209
Path: ED1ZAC<ED1ZAC<LU4ECL<HR1PAQ<CX2SA
Sent: 180617/0010Z @:CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM #:46119 [Salto] FBB7.00e $:AMSATBB13209
From: CX2SA@CX2SA.SAL.URY.SOAM
To  : SATDIG@WW

Today's Topics:

   1. Falconsat-3 pass attempt. (tjschuessler@???????.????
   2. Re: Falconsat-3 pass attempt. (Ryan Noguchi)
   3. APRS FD method (Robert Bruninga)
   4. Re: Another KR500 thread, maybe. (Paul)
   5. Re: APRS FD method (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
   6. Re: SATPC32 reinstall issue (k6vug@?????????.????
   7. Re: APRS FD method (Greg D)
   8. Re: APRS FD method (Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK))
   9. Re: APRS FD method (Ryan Noguchi)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:14:53 -0500
From: <tjschuessler@???????.???>
To: "'AMSAT BB'" <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Falconsat-3 pass attempt.
Message-ID: <02dd01d4058d$29220510$7b660f30$@???????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Hi all,

Am trying to figure out this Falconsat-3 digipeating thing and have ben on
several passes this Saturday morning with only N1RCN heard early.  I would
like to give this a try on Sunday morning in what would be for me, a 1125Z
high elevation pass.  I think I kind of now know how to reply to calls, if
my Kenwood is set up with the phrases that Patrick Stoddard suggested, but
am not sure how you throw out a general call.  I have beaconed but never saw
my call sign come back from the satellite.  Should I see my call come back
if I hit it?  Is this really APRS beconing or standard Packet that we are
supposed to be doing here?

`This is definitely not an EASYSAT but I like the challenge.

Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
EM12ms





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 17:22:49 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ryan Noguchi <ai6do@?????.???>
To: 'AMSAT BB' <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Falconsat-3 pass attempt.
Message-ID: <169993013.638371.1529169769904@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Include your CQ call in your StatusText field. Mine currently reads "CQ
APRS AI6DO DM03" but I'll change that for Field Day to include both my
exchange and my grid. Send your beacon (preferably manually) to "call CQ."
Dont expect to get your own beacon back. Most of the time you won't.
Properly formatted APRS messages are best as most portable ops won't be able
to decode anything else.

I also put "QSL de AI6DO" or something similar in my acknowledgment message
text. If? you responded to my CQ with your exchange and you get an ACK
packet from me, the three way QSO is complete, since I'm not running an
unattended station.

Hope to hear you on! The farthest I've gotten with FS-3 is EM10, so I may be
able to QSO with you if the timing is right. Good luck!

73, Ryan AI6DO



    On Saturday, June 16, 2018, 9:16:10 AM PDT, <tjschuessler@???????.???>
wrote:

 Hi all,

Am trying to figure out this Falconsat-3 digipeating thing and have ben on
several passes this Saturday morning with only N1RCN heard early.? I would
like to give this a try on Sunday morning in what would be for me, a 1125Z
high elevation pass.? I think I kind of now know how to reply to calls, if
my Kenwood is set up with the phrases that Patrick Stoddard suggested, but
am not sure how you throw out a general call.? I have beaconed but never saw
my call sign come back from the satellite.? Should I see my call come back
if I hit it?? Is this really APRS beconing or standard Packet that we are
supposed to be doing here?

`This is definitely not an EASYSAT but I like the challenge.

Tom Schuessler, N5HYP
EM12ms



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:32:01 -0400
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@????.???>
To: amsat bb <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS FD method
Message-ID:
<CALdCfNKRFrP_5b1epsV1my6m7KXDQRsPMDBg6h3YO3c8fVG7JQ@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I welcome Rules Feedback, but this is the OPTIMUM way to make FD contacts
via a satellite from an APRS radio with the least congestion.  DO NOT USE
MESSAGES.  They will choke the channel with retries and no one will get
through.

Set your path via the correct Satellite DIGI callsign and turn off
proportional pathing and auto-decay.  Set interval to 30 seconds.

Place your CATEGORY and SECTION in your STATUS text and set beacon time to
once a minute.  You don't need GRID since all APRS radios display that on
receipt based on the position.  SO here is your STATUS at the start:

CQFD 3AMDC  (category and section)

Then every time you see someone else's info, QSL them by pressing the F key
and SEL button 5 times and it will go directly to place the cursor at the
end of your status text for you to add the first contact call:

CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR

And then when you see the next one, add the next call:

CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR,W3ADO

And so on.  You can be acking up to 4 calls at a time.  And your CQ and
acks are all in a single packet.

You can only count the calls as 2-way if you also see your call in the QSL
list of the other station.

When you get to 4 calls, then ERASE the first one, and add the next one at
the end. and so on.

This method keeps the channel load low, automatically captures and records
other stations in your  STATION LIST and automatically sends your QSL's in
your next automatic beacon.  This lets you spend your time reviewing the
lists, deciding who you have received QSL's from and entering the next
calls in your STATUS text.

PRACTICE.  Yes, pressing F key and SEL key 4 times will get you there since
it will go to APRS, then STATUS TEXT, then SELECT the existing one, then
SELECT it for editing, and then the cursor goes to the end so you can edit
it.

You should WRITE down any packets that have your callsign QSLed in them,
since once that station has entered 4 more calls, yours drops off his
beacon and so your STATION list will no longer have a copy of your call,
just his latest 4.

In my mind, this is a legal 2-way.  You both exchanged grids, and category
and section and QSLed and saw your call acknowledged.

Again, NEVER us APRS "MESSGE" format via a satellite.  It is tremendously
inefficient and clogs the channel with retries because the ACKs just dont
get through.  That's why we invented APRS in the first place.  TO get away
from the abysimal success of ACKS on a crowded channel.

Bob, WB4APR


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 19:47:37 +0100
From: Paul <paul@????.???.??>
To: John <john@?????.???.??>, amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Another KR500 thread, maybe.
Message-ID: <e95c5c82-9168-2317-19a3-3e2bf2ba66bf@????.???.??>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Just a quick update, I took the controller capacitor out of line and now
the limit switches behave as expected so that's good news. Having
cleaned everything I put it back together without grease for the time
being with 20 of the best condition bearings in one end and am pleased
to say everything works perfectly using the old controller.

The new stainless bearings, M6 bolts for the casing and M8 bolts for the
bracket have been ordered so hopefully it won't be too long before my ?1
elevation rotator is brought into service. I've downloaded a few manuals
now so can match up what I have motor and controller wise.

Just being lazy for the moment and to save me searching is there a PC
interface available for the 5600 motor and old style Kenpro KR-400 (my
azimuth rotator), one that has a stand alone programme to operate them?

Thanks again for your help with this little project John.

73
Paul
G7PUV

On 16/06/2018 15:06, John wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Yes, I'm 99% sure it's the elevation unit side of a late model KR5600B. I
would not recommend running it with both capacitors inline, as the
capacitors are effectively used as a timing device to ensure the motor spins
in the correct direction. The capacitance delays the current hitting the
second set of coils long enough to make the motor spin which allows it to
drive the rest of the system. Sending current up both sides at once (due to
your capacitor in the controller) will confuse things somewhat
>
> The motor auto-reversing is possibly a symptom of this extra capacitor in
the wrong place, though since I had weird wiring in my rotor unit which I
needed to pull out, I can't verify that from experience. Pull the capacitor
wires from your controller and see if you get the same behaviour or not!
>
> The disc brake is between the gear on the motor shaft, and the motor
housing, and is usually a cork disc. It adds enough friction to 'brake' the
motor, but when you energise the coils, the motor shaft physically lifts
away from the brake disc. You'll see, if you give the shaft a gentle pull,
that it almost lifts away from the motor unit - this is the brake release
mechanism.
>
> The main thing to remember is that you're working with AC motors here,
which run at around 26-28V.
>
> As an aside, if you don't have the manual for it, it's worth finding one -
I probably have a digital copy somewhere I can send you if needed. The
manual has a full and complete wiring diagram for both sides of the system
in them.
>
> 73,
>
> John (XLX)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul <paul@????.???.??>
> Sent: 16 June 2018 09:41
> To: John <john@?????.???.??>; amsat-bb@?????.???
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Another KR500 thread, maybe.
>
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for your lengthy reply, I really appreciate it. Just to clarify one
thing you think this is a late model Kenpro due to it having the switches
and cap inside the casing attached above the positioning pot?
>
> I tested the motor last night using the KR400 controller, wiring seems
standard on pins 4,5 and 6 so I gave it a couple of briefs bursts to see if
it turned, it didn't! Well not initially then all appeared OK, on closer
inspection I discovered that the motor itself has some form of brake or stop
inside. While it's free to be turned manually in the same direction it was
last powered it will not turn in the opposite direction until power is
applied to move it that way. At first I thought it was jammed or broken but
it appears to be normal operation as the rotation is quite free with no
nasty feeling rough spots.
>
> The limit switches surprised me as well. I come from a satellite
background where I'm used to a limit switch killing power to an actuator, if
I press one of these it switches the motor into the opposite direction, is
that right?
>
> Now I know the motor is free to move I've purchased new bearings and will
source some suitable grease, primer and paint. The case has become quite
pitted inside where the water was laying but it's now all clean after wire
brushing and rubbing down. Externally it's in very good condition even where
I hit each point with the gas gun to get the bolts out. It goes without
saying they'll all be replaced with stainless socket head bolts.
>
> 73
> Paul
> G7PUV
>
>
> On 15/06/2018 09:13, John wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> It's a Model B KR500 I would say. The very last version of the KR5600
>> (the KR5600B set) had limit switches and capacitors inside the motors.
>>
>> As for how to proceed, you have two options. Firstly pull the limit
>> switch mechanism out and rely on the controller's start capacitor, or
>> secondly pull the start capacitor from the controller and use the
>> rotor limit switches and capacitor. As far as I can tell from the
>> in-depth dismantling I've done of a couple of these, either should
>> work, but having both would effectively render the limit switches
>> redundant, and probably play some kind of havoc further down the line.
>>
>> What I'd recommend personally is that you start by checking the wiring
>> config on the back of the screw block - this will have an effect on
>> what you do later. There was some weird wiring in one of the rotor
>> units I bought, and it ended up with pins being shorted together
>> inside the connector block and made everything weird. I made the
>> decision with that one to return it to 'A' spec as I couldn't be sure
>> what else had been done. If yours is similar that's the approach I would
take.
>>
>> If, however, the inside wiring on the motor unit is sensible and sane,
>> and matches spec, then I'd probably go for keeping the limit switches
>> installed, as otherwise your only limiting is a mechanical stop, and
>> if you hit that and don't realise, but keep sending current up the
>> cable, you'll inevitably burn out your motor windings after a while.
>> Not such a fun job to fix (dismantling the motor housing is at least
>> an hour's work on its own), although easy enough to do with patience.
>>
>> Feel free to ping me off list if you want to chat about it further!
>>
>> 73, and a firm left handshake,
>> John (2E0XLX)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AMSAT-BB <amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???> On Behalf Of Paul
>> Sent: 14 June 2018 18:18
>> To: amsat-bb@?????.???
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Another KR500 thread, maybe.
>>
>> Hi all
>> I recently won a Kenpro KR500 rotor on Ebay for the princely sum of a quid.
>> The alleged history was it was purchased, had antennas attached but
>> was never wired or used and this I can believe because the connector
>> block looks untouched. It was however left on its side in the garden
>> so looks pristine but has suffered water ingress. I started to strip
>> it down today and of course the eight M6 Phillips heads put up quite a
>> fight but I attacked it with fire and it is now apart.
>>
>> Having opened it up I'm now slightly confused as to what model rotor I
>> actually have. It has the eight screw terminal block, the casing is
>> stamped Kenpro but internally it has the limit switches and a capacitor.
>>
>> The controller I intend using is an old Kenpro KR400 model and I
>> assume has the 70uF cap across the switches. Do I leave this in place
>> to use it with my rotor or should I remove it, or remove the cap in the
rotor?
>>
>> Paul G7PUV
>> Sussex Coast. JO00
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
>> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
>> the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
>

--
Paul
Sussex Coast. JO00

Icom IC-R8500, Airspy & RTL 820 SDR.
HS Publications D100 TV-DX receiver.
Sony XDR F1HD and XDR-GTK interface.
Sony 920, RDS Spy, CCW Multicoupler.
W4KMA 24-100MHz custom Log Periodic.
Wellbrook ALA1530AL1 active HF loop.
Triax MTH-13 BIII, Korner 15ele BII.
1.8M Precision dish, C-Band 66E-58W.
1.2M Gibertini dish, KuBand 70E-63W.
2.4M FortecStar dish C-Band 49E-58W.

http://www.ukdx.org.uk
www.youtube.com/Aceblaggard


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 19:19:26 +0000
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb@??????.???>
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] APRS FD method
Message-ID:
<CAN6TEUev0SW-b5_tX6p_ZX6n0TwiVUpyrPNZb54uGPbGPKLrmg@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi Bob!

I will be looking to work the packet digipeaters during
Field Day, as that has been the easier way for me to
get a completed satellite QSO - even when the ISS had its
digipeater working. I like the basic premise you outline
for a QSO, but it seems like something is missing to call
it a QSO. It certainly seems to stop short of what we would
consider a QSO if we are working SSB or CW, or for that
matter a QSO on an FM satellite.

Assuming NO-84's digipeater stays on, I see some NO-84
passes late Saturday afternoon during Field Day. The
FalconSat-3 passes come late in Saturday evening and
early Sunday morning; I might not be out for those.

Based on the AMSAT Field Day rules:

https://www.amsat.org/field-day/

I am not sure your approach would meet the definition of a
complete QSO. Station A makes a general CQ call, and station
B would simply list your call as a QSL in the status text.
Then how does station A acknowledge station B's QSL - adding
B's call sign to the status text from A? Add in the time of
having to edit the status text on the APRS-ready radios,
and it gets messy fast.

When using messages, at least on the Kenwood radios, you
can clear the retry counter once you know the other station
received your message. That cuts down on the clutter. It is
unfortunate that Kenwood and Yaesu don't provide an option
to send messages without requesting an ACK from the other
station, but that's the hand we have been dealt. Based on
my experience over the past few Field Days on the 145.825
MHz digipeaters, very few ACKs ever get through anyway to
clog the frequency. The 145.825 MHz frequency will probably
have its assortment of unattended stations squawking away,
and FalconSat-3 adds in the traffic from mailbox users.

Other than the requirement for ACKs built into the Kenwood
and Yaesu APRS-ready radios, APRS messages are really the
ideal way to go about completing a QSO. The APRS message
format contains the two call signs, and the message text
can carry the Field Day exchange, maybe a grid locator, or
the "TNX" or "QSL" to wrap up the QSO. It comes closest to
how the exchange is laid out in the AMSAT Field Day rules,
and it would look more like a QSO for anyone monitoring the
traffic on the frequency (or looking on pcsat.aprs.org in
the case of NO-84 traffic picked up by APRS gateways).

73!




Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK





Place your CATEGORY and SECTION in your STATUS text and set beacon time to
> once a minute.  You don't need GRID since all APRS radios display that on
> receipt based on the position.  SO here is your STATUS at the start:
>
> CQFD 3AMDC  (category and section)
>
> Then every time you see someone else's info, QSL them by pressing the F key
> and SEL button 5 times and it will go directly to place the cursor at the
> end of your status text for you to add the first contact call:
>
> CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR
>
> And then when you see the next one, add the next call:
>
> CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR,W3ADO
>
> And so on.  You can be acking up to 4 calls at a time.  And your CQ and
> acks are all in a single packet.
>
> You can only count the calls as 2-way if you also see your call in the QSL
> list of the other station.
>
> When you get to 4 calls, then ERASE the first one, and add the next one at
> the end. and so on.
>
> This method keeps the channel load low, automatically captures and records
> other stations in your  STATION LIST and automatically sends your QSL's in
> your next automatic beacon.  This lets you spend your time reviewing the
> lists, deciding who you have received QSL's from and entering the next
> calls in your STATUS text.
>
> PRACTICE.  Yes, pressing F key and SEL key 4 times will get you there since
> it will go to APRS, then STATUS TEXT, then SELECT the existing one, then
> SELECT it for editing, and then the cursor goes to the end so you can edit
> it.
>
> You should WRITE down any packets that have your callsign QSLed in them,
> since once that station has entered 4 more calls, yours drops off his
> beacon and so your STATION list will no longer have a copy of your call,
> just his latest 4.
>
> In my mind, this is a legal 2-way.  You both exchanged grids, and category
> and section and QSLed and saw your call acknowledged.
>
> Again, NEVER us APRS "MESSGE" format via a satellite.  It is tremendously
> inefficient and clogs the channel with retries because the ACKs just dont
> get through.  That's why we invented APRS in the first place.  TO get away
> from the abysimal success of ACKS on a crowded channel.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 22:14:04 +0000 (UTC)
From: "k6vug@?????????.???? <k6vug@?????????.???>
To: amsat-bb@?????.???
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] SATPC32 reinstall issue
Message-ID: <602075532.1464419.1529187244163@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Rick,
Been there done that, so may I suggest a couple of things to reduce your
work and speed things up...
So, do as Alan has said, then sort the SatPC32_DataBackup folder by Date
Descending. You should see only a few files/folders would have recent
timestamps. Only focus those files/folders, this will save you lot of time
and frustration.? Also before copying over the newer files (one buy one),
rename the original files as .ORIG, or .SAVE, so you can bounce back quickly
from any problematic file.?

Just a thought, hope it helps.?


73!UmeshK6VUG





------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 07:04:39 -0500
From: "Alan" <wa4sca@?????.???>
To: "'Richard Tejera'" <Saguaroastro@???.???>, "'AMSAT'"
??? <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] SATPC32 reinstall issue
Message-ID: <000a01d404a1$0a12d880$1e388980$@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

Try running the new version without reinstalling your old data.? If that
works, you can incrementally restore the old data manually and find the
problem.

73,

Alan
WA4SCA


<-----Original Message-----
<From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@?????.???? On Behalf Of
<Richard Tejera
<Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 21:19 PM
<To: 'AMSAT' <amsat-bb@?????.???>
<Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] SATPC32 reinstall issue
<
<Anyone??? Still can't get Satpc32 to run properly
<
<Rick Tejera K7TEJ
<Saguaro Astronomy Club
<www.SaguaroAstro.org
<Thunderbird Amateur Radio Club
<www.w7tbc.org
<
<On June 11, 2018, at 18:50, Rick Tejera <SaguaroAstro@???.???> wrote:
<
<All,
<
<I recently? (today) had to reinstall SATPC32. I was getting the following
<error on start up: Ungultiges argument zum Codeieren des Datms. If I
clicked
<OK the program would open, but with a blank window. Move on if I try to
<open
<the Satellite menu, the following error popped up: ????.
<
<So Anyway, I save my data, uninstalled, and reloaded (Upgrading while I was
<at it), restored my data. Same thing is happening.
<
<Any Ideas? I'd? like to get things running by Field day.
<
<TIA
<
<Rick Tejera (K7TEJ)
<Saguaro Astronomy Club
<www.saguaroastro.org <http://www.saguaroastro.org>
<Thunderbird Amateur Radio Club
<www.W7TBC.org <http://www.W7TBC.org>
<
*****************************************


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 15:28:59 -0700
From: Greg D <ko6th.greg@?????.???>
To: amsat-bb@??????.???
Cc: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] APRS FD method
Message-ID: <889b0df5-5d72-b315-942b-9a9f239538b3@?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Patrick,

What I think you (and I) could do would be to not use the internal
Kenwood APRS processing, but instead run the radio in KISS mode and use
an external software client.  APRSIS32, for example, lets one do
messaging without requiring the ACK, and I have it conveniently
connected to my Netbook via Bluetooth (so no cabling / USB Serial port
issues).

But, I haven't tried it via satellite as yet...  Should probably do that
this week :).  Not sure what would happen if the other station still had
Acks enabled.  At worst I think you'd see several retries, depending on
who started the conversation.  Haven't diagrammed that out.

Good luck on Field Day!

Greg  KO6TH


Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
> Hi Bob!
>
> I will be looking to work the packet digipeaters during
> Field Day, as that has been the easier way for me to
> get a completed satellite QSO - even when the ISS had its
> digipeater working. I like the basic premise you outline
> for a QSO, but it seems like something is missing to call
> it a QSO. It certainly seems to stop short of what we would
> consider a QSO if we are working SSB or CW, or for that
> matter a QSO on an FM satellite.
>
> Assuming NO-84's digipeater stays on, I see some NO-84
> passes late Saturday afternoon during Field Day. The
> FalconSat-3 passes come late in Saturday evening and
> early Sunday morning; I might not be out for those.
>
> Based on the AMSAT Field Day rules:
>
> https://www.amsat.org/field-day/
>
> I am not sure your approach would meet the definition of a
> complete QSO. Station A makes a general CQ call, and station
> B would simply list your call as a QSL in the status text.
> Then how does station A acknowledge station B's QSL - adding
> B's call sign to the status text from A? Add in the time of
> having to edit the status text on the APRS-ready radios,
> and it gets messy fast.
>
> When using messages, at least on the Kenwood radios, you
> can clear the retry counter once you know the other station
> received your message. That cuts down on the clutter. It is
> unfortunate that Kenwood and Yaesu don't provide an option
> to send messages without requesting an ACK from the other
> station, but that's the hand we have been dealt. Based on
> my experience over the past few Field Days on the 145.825
> MHz digipeaters, very few ACKs ever get through anyway to
> clog the frequency. The 145.825 MHz frequency will probably
> have its assortment of unattended stations squawking away,
> and FalconSat-3 adds in the traffic from mailbox users.
>
> Other than the requirement for ACKs built into the Kenwood
> and Yaesu APRS-ready radios, APRS messages are really the
> ideal way to go about completing a QSO. The APRS message
> format contains the two call signs, and the message text
> can carry the Field Day exchange, maybe a grid locator, or
> the "TNX" or "QSL" to wrap up the QSO. It comes closest to
> how the exchange is laid out in the AMSAT Field Day rules,
> and it would look more like a QSO for anyone monitoring the
> traffic on the frequency (or looking on pcsat.aprs.org in
> the case of NO-84 traffic picked up by APRS gateways).
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
> Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
>
>
>
>
>
> Place your CATEGORY and SECTION in your STATUS text and set beacon time to
>> once a minute.  You don't need GRID since all APRS radios display that on
>> receipt based on the position.  SO here is your STATUS at the start:
>>
>> CQFD 3AMDC  (category and section)
>>
>> Then every time you see someone else's info, QSL them by pressing the F key
>> and SEL button 5 times and it will go directly to place the cursor at the
>> end of your status text for you to add the first contact call:
>>
>> CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR
>>
>> And then when you see the next one, add the next call:
>>
>> CQFD 3AMDC QSL WB4APR,W3ADO
>>
>> And so on.  You can be acking up to 4 calls at a time.  And your CQ and
>> acks are all in a single packet.
>>
>> You can only count the calls as 2-way if you also see your call in the QSL
>> list of the other station.
>>
>> When you get to 4 calls, then ERASE the first one, and add the next one at
>> the end. and so on.
>>
>> This method keeps the channel load low, automatically captures and records
>> other stations in your  STATION LIST and automatically sends your QSL's in
>> your next automatic beacon.  This lets you spend your time reviewing the
>> lists, deciding who you have received QSL's from and entering the next
>> calls in your STATUS text.
>>
>> PRACTICE.  Yes, pressing F key and SEL key 4 times will get you there since
>> it will go to APRS, then STATUS TEXT, then SELECT the existing one, then
>> SELECT it for editing, and then the cursor goes to the end so you can edit
>> it.
>>
>> You should WRITE down any packets that have your callsign QSLed in them,
>> since once that station has entered 4 more calls, yours drops off his
>> beacon and so your STATION list will no longer have a copy of your call,
>> just his latest 4.
>>
>> In my mind, this is a legal 2-way.  You both exchanged grids, and category
>> and section and QSLed and saw your call acknowledged.
>>
>> Again, NEVER us APRS "MESSGE" format via a satellite.  It is tremendously
>> inefficient and clogs the channel with retries because the ACKs just dont
>> get through.  That's why we invented APRS in the first place.  TO get away
>> from the abysimal success of ACKS on a crowded channel.
>>
>> Bob, WB4APR
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@?????.???. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 22:38:18 +0000
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)" <amsat-bb@??????.???>
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] APRS FD method
Message-ID:
<CAN6TEUe-qdMKJJJ8H4+pyU2G_APTY5fSDeRYMWP8ojOtpXJ0KA@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi Greg!

If a Kenwood radio receives an APRS message without the request
for an ACK, it doesn't transmit anything back to the sending
station. The message is received, and the radio's screen
changes to alert the operator to the newly-received message.
I saw this all the time with those using UISS, since most of
those operators don't enable the ACK requirement for their
outgoing messages. If I'm remembering correctly, UISS will
send ACKs when a message is received with the ACK request,
regardless of the UISS ACK setting for outgoing messages.?
I don't know much of the program you mentioned; I never put
it on any of my Win10 tablets or Win7 laptop.

Yes, I could go with a computer in the field, and put the
radio into KISS mode to use with software as you mention.
I probably won't do that, since I expect I will need to
walk a short distance away from my HF setup to get a clear
view of enough of the sky to work the satellites. And once
I am out of the shade, the screen on a laptop or tablet
becomes harder to see, unless I put a box or some shade
over it. The displays on the TH-D72 and TH-D74 do better
in the bright light, and being able to work those passes
without a computer or tablet around is part of the fun for
me.

Hope to see/hear you on next weekend!





Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Twitter: @?????? or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK




On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 10:28 PM, Greg D <ko6th.greg@?????.???> wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> What I think you (and I) could do would be to not use the internal
> Kenwood APRS processing, but instead run the radio in KISS mode and use
> an external software client.  APRSIS32, for example, lets one do
> messaging without requiring the ACK, and I have it conveniently
> connected to my Netbook via Bluetooth (so no cabling / USB Serial port
> issues).
>
> But, I haven't tried it via satellite as yet...  Should probably do that
> this week :).  Not sure what would happen if the other station still had
> Acks enabled.  At worst I think you'd see several retries, depending on
> who started the conversation.  Haven't diagrammed that out.
>
> Good luck on Field Day!
>


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 00:05:46 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ryan Noguchi <ai6do@?????.???>
To: AMSAT <amsat-bb@?????.???>
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] APRS FD method
Message-ID: <2021625973.717858.1529193946171@????.?????.???>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 >I am not sure your approach would meet the definition of a
>complete QSO. Station A makes a general CQ call, and station>B would simply
list your call as a QSL in the status text.
>Then how does station A acknowledge station B's QSL - adding
>B's call sign to the status text from A?

Yes, that's correct. The CONOPS that Bob WB4APR has outlined is sufficient
to qualify as a QSO. Both parties have sent their call and exchange,
received same from the other party, and have mutually acknowledged receipt.
Both A and B are calling CQ in each beacon they transmit. They simply append
the calls of the stations they are "answering" at the same time that they
call CQ themselves.?

The elegance of the concept is that all communications are beacons--with
everyone calling CQ and answering other CQers at the same time--rather than
point-to-point messages. It's a very efficient use of the limited
resource.?I like the idea in principle.

>Add in the time of having to edit the status text on the?>APRS-ready
radios, and it gets messy fast.

This is my second biggest concern with the concept, especially for those of
us who will not be at a computer terminal. I tend to agree that this may be
cumbersome to implement on just an HT, but I'll try it out to see how it
compares.?

What I think is a more fatal flaw is that this just isn't the way we do
things the other 363 days of the year. It isn't just a matter of "saying
something different" on Field Day. This is a fundamentally different way to
make QSOs than we do on packet satellites every other day but Field Day,
which is not a recipe for success. It's a classic game theory problem. If
I'm the only one following this protocol, I won't be making any QSOs.?

Has anyone in recent history successfully made an APRS Field Day QSO in the
manner that Bob describes?

73, Ryan AI6DO

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Sent via amsat-bb@?????.???.
AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide
without requiring membership.  Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

------------------------------

End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 13, Issue 209
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